I do believe most the atheletes on the Murphy, Kings, Lynden Christian and Bellevue Christian basketball teams live in the area.
Posted on 12/30 11:38 AM | IP: Logged
within the area? What would you consider the area? I know of at least 3 boy's who attend ATM who live within the Sultan School Distict Boundary and one girl who was a former league MVP. Had that player played at Sultan, we might be looking at a team this year going on their 3rd straight state tournmanent instead of looking for their first ever state tournamnet appearance. Sure, they may have moved to a neighboring public school, but at least it would have been within the same rules that all public schools face.
Posted on 12/30 12:25 PM | IP: Logged
I also wanted to say I don't look down upon those who choose to go to a private school and play. They are playing within the rules that are in place now. They aren't doing anything wrong. I'd just like to see the rules changed or have them play in their own league where they play within the same rules as everybody else. I also don't have anything against private schools. I went to a small Christian school for 3 years in elementary school, but the focus of that school wasn't on building mega sport's teams. There are plenty of private schools out there that parents send their kids to to captialize on growth in faith and smaller class sizes. Why does ATM only focus on H.S. kids? It seems with the money they put into athletics they could afford to run a solid K-12 curriculum. Wouldn't that be best for their students?
Posted on 12/30 12:53 PM | IP: Logged
I believe all 5 starters for Archbishop live in the Everett school district.
Posted on 12/30 2:55 PM | IP: Logged
hmm, I wonder if they would be willing to share partial addrsses of their athletes? Obviously not enough info to know someone's exact location, but enough for us to see where they are drawing from.
Posted on 12/30 3:10 PM | IP: Logged
And if they stayed in Sultan where crap passes as effort and player development is a low priority then those players wouldn't be high quality players. Good programs develop good players not the other way around. If I had to choose between my kids playing for ATM or Sultan I'd move mountains to see they weren't stuck in such a horrible program in a community that appears to be half hearted about building excellence. But I'm lucky I guess, my kids went to Colfax and Pullman and they didn't have any issues competing against the big bad private schools.
Again, like below and on the FB board: it isn't ATM's fault your team sucks.
Posted on 12/30 3:49 PM | IP: Logged
When one school has a good program, good players are naturally drawn to it. Prairie High girls basketball in Vancouver is a prime example. Aldridge is a good coach and started with success and frequent visits to the state tournament when he began coaching. There is no need for recruiting because: A) He's a great coach and makes average athletes work hard to become good and great athletes... and B) Since his team's success, good athletes naturally are drawn to the program and some transfer in or move into the district to play for him..
He has no need to recruit. Most dynasty programs start with success and then there usually is no need to recruit. I am no expert and am not from the Everett area, but I suspect this might be the case with ATM. They get a lot of exposure and players are naturally drawn to the good program. The exposure and success recruits them naturally. I may be wrong, like I said I'm not from Everett. But that's just my thoughts.
Posted on 12/30 5:11 PM | IP: Logged
Thank you, my point exactly! Public schools can do the same thing privates do under the same rules that both are bound by.
Not only that but at the smaller school sizes so much talent is wasted by lesser programs. Colfax had 41 girls turn out for volleyball, I bet that's more than the publics in the Cascade had turn out for football. Each of those girls has been dreaming of and working their arses off since grade school to play on the Bulldogs. There was a comment on Bsports.org about Colfax always being young and that's the reason. Most talent isn't born its made and if you kick out the privates I don't know that the Cascade publics would be anymore talented because they don't seem to develop what they got, they just whine about not having more.
Prairie, second best girl's BB program in the state after my Bulldogs. Now that I think about it, Colfax in the Bs now but in 1A as well, Prairie in 3A and LC in 4A, the three best girls BB programs in the state all things being equal and all three are public schools.
Posted on 12/30 5:27 PM | IP: Logged
In the past 4 days, Matt Koehler, a resident of Sultan, has spent a significant amount of time trying to convince people that Archbishop Murphy High School does not play on a level playing field with public schools. He wrote a letter to the editor to the Everett Herald, has posted virtually the same letter on a blog for the Seattle P-I, and posted misleading (and sometimes outright false) statements on this message board.
Let's set aside Sultan's winner-to-state, loser-out basketball victory over AMHS last year, and examine his logic.
He's actually RIGHT!
Let's also set aside the public school advantages of school size and taxpayer funded athletic programs, facilities and coaches salaries for a moment, and consider the following:
Archbishop Murphy is, indeed, NOT playing on a level playing field in two key areas:
1) Its 50 mile radius drawing area; and 2) Its ability to attract families within that drawing area to pay tuition for their children to get a quality education and positive experience at AMHS.
The REAL question, the one that I challenge Matt Koehler to answer, is this:
Are Archbishop Murphy's advantages UNFAIR at the 2A classification in Washington state?
A quick look at the facts indicates that the answer is NO.
First of all, AMHS voluntarily opts up to the 2A classification in order to play bigger, more challenging schools in the state playoffs. Since making this choice in 2005, AMHS has won exactly 2 state championships, both in girls soccer.
So, in these 4+ years, AMHS has competed in 16 team sports at the 2A level. That's 64 different sports seasons. This means that in 62 out of the 64 sports seasons, AMHS has been knocked out of the District or State playoffs...by a 2A PUBLIC SCHOOL!
Is Archbishop Murphy really dominating 2A athletics?
Last year, a 2A public high school, Sehome, won 6 state championships.
Lynden, another 2A public high school, won the football, boys basketball and baseball state championships. Lynden also knocked AMHS out of the running for a state title in girls basketball and twice in football.
Fife, another 2A public high school, defeated AMHS in the girls soccer semifinals two years in a row on the way to their own state titles.
Burlington, another 2A public high school, routinely pummels Cascade Conference opponents in virtually every District tournament contest year after year.
What exactly does Matt Koehler want? Do people really think that AMHS has an UNFAIR advantage over the 62 public high schools who have knocked them out of the playoffs the last 4 years?
I would submit that AMHS and its administrators should actually be commended for voluntarily choosing to opt up to the 2A classification. Imagine the number of state titles, and subsequent uproar, that would result from AMHS competing at the 1A level.
I would also argue that the problem is NOT that AMHS has an UNFAIR advantage over public schools. The problem is that people like Matt Koehler are adopting a mentality that "If you can't beat 'em, whine about 'em." Throw your hands into the air. Whine about the schools who beat you. Try to ban them from ever competing against you again.
I assure you, Sehome doesn't have that mentality. Lynden doesn't have that mentality. Fife doesn't have that mentality. Burlington doesn't have that mentality.
Does Matt Koehler think people are going to buy his argument that, if they didn't play Archbishop Murphy, they would be getting to state against the powerhouse schools of the Northwest Conference? The combined conference records of Sultan's football, volleyball and girls' soccer teams were 1-32 this fall. That's 0-5 against AMHS and 1-27 against the other public schools in the Cascade Conference.
Matt Koehler's mentality is reduce successful athletic programs to the lowest common denominator.
That's no lesson to teach young people.
The only lesson Matt Koehler seems to be teaching is whining, cowardice, and self-pity.
Posted on 12/30 8:07 PM | IP: Logged
I can virtually guarantee you that nobody from AMHS comes from Sultan.
Posted on 12/30 8:09 PM | IP: Logged
Posted on 12/30 8:10 PM | IP: Logged
I'm not going to throw any kid under the bus. Anyone in the area knows what I'm talking about. I'd like to ses ATM release the info of where there athletes live. You don't want everyone knowing it? Fine then hold an AD's meeting and share the info with them.
Posted on 12/30 8:53 PM | IP: Logged
Are you seriously asking for the names and personal addresses of Archbishop Murphy students to prove your point? Drop the obsession dude.
Let's say there was a really good player from the Sultan district. Get a better school and athletic program and they probably won't want to leave.
Or just ban everyone in Sultan from ever leaving their community until they die. No commuting to private schools, colleges, or out-of town jobs.
For the ones that do leave, burn them at the stake when they get back.
Posted on 12/30 9:14 PM | IP: Logged
I believe you are referring to a certain player from Murphy who happens to be playing ball at Montana...Her family lives in Monroe not Sultan. Why can't people drop all this talk about AMHS and how unfair it is that they get to draw kids from a larger area. Don't forget the majority of the kid there have attended a Catholic school almost their whole lives and AMHS is the ONLY Catholic school is Snohomish County
This post was edited on 12/30 9:28 PM by highschoolsports1012
Posted on 12/30 9:18 PM | IP: Logged
But OK, so a bunch of kids who live around Sultan decide they want to play for ATM so they sign up their freshman year, and most likely playing JV that year, or they transfer and just play JV for a year anyway to become eligible. What makes you think they would have become good players had they stayed at Sultan HS? I've seen ATM football teams, heck the one my Hounds played in the championship game might have been their best team ever, anyway, those kids weren't born DI athletes blessed with can't miss physical talent. They were fairly athletic kids who looked like they spent a lot of time lifting, running, practicing, attending camps, working on skills, well coached and just flat hard work to make their own talent with what they did have small DI and DII types. Heck, Pullman had six DI scholarship players and they nearly beat us. What makes you think Sultan would have facilitated that, pushed and helped them to become the players they became? Surely you aren't saying that every kid with any athletic talent abandons Sultan for greener pastures and Sultan is left with only a bunch small, slow, weak talentless crappy kids? And if so what does that say about Sultan and the quality of Sultan‘s sports programs?
Posted on 12/30 9:26 PM | IP: Logged
Col-pul- It's so mature when you can keep the subject on the fairness of rules instead of taking every opportunity to rip Sultan and/or the Cascade Conference. I haven't once ripped into ATM. In my original letter I didn't even accuse them of recruiting. I don't have anything against ATM or the families that decide to go there. They are playing within the rules. My issue is that the rule needs to be changed. After you go through all of the transfer requirements you mentioned on the football board, the fact still remains that anyone within a 50 mile radius can go to ATM. That compared to the 5-10 mile radius of all the other schools in the conference make it unfair. The WIAA motto is play fair, and yet they have rules set up that don't allow that to happen. Let's say in a hypothetical situation that a kid lives right next to Sultan HS. After not playing a year of varsity they would be allowed to play at ATM without moving. If that same kid lives right next to ATM, they would still need to move within Sultan's 5 mile or so radius to be able to play. How exactly is that fair or a level playing field? Now, go ahead and rip us again for being weak and having a crappy program. I think things are on the upswing and our state run helped with that last year. The programs up north have a long history of success and have built tradition. I applaud them for that. Hopefully, one day we will get to that same level. Success has a way of building confidence and sucess get's people excited and willing to work to get programs going. All I'm asking for is a fair shot.
Posted on 12/31 11:42 AM | IP: Logged
However I think there is one flaw to your argument. It is my understanding that the kid who livs next to ATM high school would have to move within the 5 mile radius to be eligible to play varisty right away. He/she could still live next to ATM and go to Sultan and still play, he/she would just have to play JV for the first year. So really how is that any different. Transfers both ways would still have to play non-varisty for a year. (Of course there would be eligibility paperwork to fill out as well as out of district forms, however would still be under same rules) I know of a couple of kids who have tranferred to a larger school from a smaller one. The family unit did not move, they played their year of JV and now they are good to go. Same rules, all schools.
Posted on 12/31 12:53 PM | IP: Logged
Name a single player on the ATM squad that live more than 10 miles from the school or hasn't played JV for year before they played varsity sports. Anyone can play at any school, no matter where they live in the whole state, so long as they don't play varsity ball for one year from the transfer.
And I'm not attacking Sultan, it isn't an insult it is an actual assessment. You are the one attacking Sultan by saying that they can't compete with schools that other public schools have no issues with competing against. You are dissing on Sultan when you claim it isn't fair that ATM has more talent because Sultan is talent poor.
It isn't ad homonym, it's just a fact: Sultan's football program is a bad football program, and the Cascade minus ATM and Kings is the weakest conference in the state. That's not name calling, its truth. It might be a hard truth for you to swallow but that doesn't make it mean or name calling. Sorry it hurts your feelers but the only way to make it not true as true can be is to change the truth of it on the field instead of on a message board, newspaper or by WIAA rule.
Seems you're saying that Sultan isn't like Lynden, isn't like Mt. Baker, isn't like BE, their special and need protection from schools with a less challenged gene pool.
Now, quit your whining because it is fair and what you ask is unfair. But you don't get that, you believe Sultan is entitled to be completive and that they shouldn't have to work for it. Therefore, any school that rises above Sultan's level of competitiveness is being unfair to Sultan.
And you are attacking ATM by saying they don’t disserve what they’ve earned. It isn’t that they are a really good football program, it’s that unfair rules all favor them.
And it you really want to know the truth, I believe that if you switched players so that the current ATM players were developed in the Sultan program and the current Sultan players were developed in the ATM program ATM would still dominate Sultan.
Posted on 12/31 1:05 PM | IP: Logged
Col-pul. It sounds like you are from Pullman. How many Sultan games have you seen? You sound like your an expert. Can you name one coach on the Sultan staff and say anything about their credentials? To say you could switch the rosters of AtM and Sultan and Sultan would still lose is a pretty arrogant statement. With that kind of arrogance I can see where you wouldn't understand the idea of fair play. Your probably the type of guy that says it's okay to run up the score on teams. Kind of like when your up by 50 and kicking onside kicks and throwing the ball. If your one of those types, we will never see eye to eye.
Posted on 12/31 1:43 PM | IP: Logged
How can you argue with someone whose entire argument is based on false information?
FACT: All kids who want to transfer to AMHS must sit out a year of varsity competition if they have played one second of varsity competition at a different school the year before. Yes, even those who live right next to Sultan high School.
FACT: All kids who want to transfer to Sultan must sit out a year of varsity competition if they have played one second of varsity competition at a different school the before. Yes, even those who live next to AMHS.
FACT: If they played all JV the year before, they can transfer and play varsity no matter what.
I would ask Matt Koehler one question:
How would you stack up against the other Cascade Conference schools if Archbishop Murphy were kicked out of the league? What problems would that really solve? Who would you replace them with so that you could have "a fair shot"?
I guarantee you that you're not going to get to the same level as the schools in the North by taking this attitude. As has been stated previously, Lynden shares its high school athletes with Lynden Christian...both are strong athletic schools and Lynden High seems to be holding their own. I guarantee you that AMHS is not bleeding the well dry of Sultan athletes. And if they are, ask yourself why that Sultan athlete would want to leave for AMHS? I'm sure Lynden has quality athletes leave for Lynden Christian every year. Then I bet they deal with it by putting together a superior product on the playing field with what they have. Not whining about fairness or what they don't have.
By the way, how are your school levies and bonds working out? Must be nice to have first class facilities, high coaches salaries and taxpayer-funded athletic budgets. Are you sure the Sultan School District is putting that money to the best use?
Posted on 12/31 1:56 PM | IP: Logged
I'm not from around these parts, folks. But all I hear from Matt Koehler and others outside the ATM zone is WHINE WHINE WHINE. Play the game or get yourself inducted into the WIAA organization so you can change the rules. Matt, stick to writing in your newspaper and stop whining like a child on some message boards. Yeesh, man.
Posted on 12/31 2:22 PM | IP: Logged
very interesting thread. Just curious, how do other states include privates in there athletic association? Is this an unrealistic wish or is there a precedent? I think there is a little more fire when public schools play privates. Seems to make for good competitions. I think it is good for high school athletics.
Posted on 12/31 3:54 PM | IP: Logged
No I don't think a team should run up a score but I also think it wrong to whine about having the score run up on you. Bad form, and whiney. The other guy’s a jerk, deal with it and get over it or sit in the mud and cry about how mean they are.
You are right, I haven't seen Sultan play. I'd like to but I only get to see Westside teams in the playoffs. In judging how good Sultan, and for that matter the rest of the Cascade publics are, is how they've faired against teams I have seen or have comparative game with. I've seen ATM, B-E, Meridian and Lynden. I thought that those were very good football teams but not a class a part from the Pullmans and Prossers and Othellos and .... If ATM is in fact as you claim that much better than Sultan and ATM is not any better than other good programs then it isn't unfair to believe they are better than Sultan simply by that fact that they are better and not that they have some unfair advantage.
You post unfair rules as the reason ATM is that much better than Sultan. Yet those unfair rules don't make ATM better than other good programs. This is aside from the rules you post only being rules in your own mind not in the handbook. All this leads me to believe with a high degree of confidence that Sultan isn't a very good football program.
Ask yourself this, if ATM went defunct and its football program ceased to exist how much better would that make Sultan's football program? And remember a program is more than coaches and players, it is the infrastructure and environment that develops players and coaches from the earliest peewee league until the last game of their senior year. And by developing coaching I mean that in good programs by the time a kid see the HS head coach he/she has already had the majority of all the coaching they ever get.
Posted on 12/31 4:37 PM | IP: Logged
Most of the states that have banned private schools from playing the state playoffs had ENORMOUS disparities in state championships on the part of private schools. New Jersey and Kentucky come to mind. I believe another state requires schools to opt up, as Archbishop Murphy voluntarily does...to the 2A level.
For Archbishop Murphy, two state titles in 4+ years of opting up to 2A doesn't seem like an uneven playing field...
Posted on 12/31 5:06 PM | IP: Logged
Honestly though- I don't think it's just about state titles. Seeing the momentum gained from just making a state basketball appearance last year showed that to me. There's a lot of luck involved in actually winning a state title once you get there. I would say most times in the basketball tournmanents I've seen the best team doesn't even win. One of the things I would like to research is state appearances for private schools vs public. I'll work on that one when I get more time...
Posted on 12/31 5:26 PM | IP: Logged
I have had the pleasure of having Matt as a friend and assistant coach. I know few people that have the passion and optimisim for kids in his community that he shares. I applaud him for having an opinion and being willing to share it to illicit introspection and discussion. The community of Sultan is lucky to have him back. As a former coach in the Cascade Conference (former head coach in multiple sports and my wife as a former head coach as well) I can attest that the conference as a whole is not the strongest in all sports night in and night out (and I could share my opinion as to why that is, but will save that for later and no I do not belive it to be the "fault" of Kings or ATM.
Many focus on football and basketball as the gauge of the quality of an athletic program and league. I understand that view and now very well the "heat" given to the coaches of those sports. I do agree with Col-Pul on the point that the support of the community and administration, development of a culture and stabilty of quality coaches can make or break an athletic program (maybe not exactly Col-Pul's words but what I gather from the outside that works for Colfax and Pullman). I can say that those factors are not always in place at all the schools in the Cascade Conference. I digress. I wanted to share that I do not believe the contention that the Cascade Conference is "the worst league in the state." Do I have evidence of that? No. I have not looked at every league in the state and only focussed on the Cascade Conference of this decade sans ATM and Kings to support the kids of those communities that there are have been some quite positive sport experiences and state placings of teams so far this century ;) Below is a breakdown of the state placers in the conference members since 2000. I may have missed a few but here it is:
Cedarcrest VB 8th
Lakewood BXC 4th
South Whidbey BSOCC 2nd BTF 7th BXC 2nd GBB 8th GSOCC 3rd GXC 3rd
Granite Falls VB 7th
Lakewood BXC 5th
South Whidbey BTF 2nd GTF 3rd GXC 2nd
Sultan GSOCC 4th
Cedarcrest WREST 8th
Coupeville GBB 6th SB 3rd
Lakewood BXC 4th
South Whidbey BTF 8th GTF 3rd GXC 2nd SB 2nd
Sultan GSOCC 1st
Cedarcrest GSOCC 3rd WREST 3rd
Coupeville GBB 8th
Lakewood BSOCC 4TH BTF 8TH
South Whidbey BTF 3RD BXC 2ND GSOCC 3RD GTF 5TH GXC 3RD SB 3RD VB 6TH
Sultan BSOCC 2ND GTF 8TH
BASE 2ND BXC 2ND
BTF 1ST GTF 6TH GXC 5TH
BSOCC 3RD GSOCC 4TH
This post was edited on 12/31 6:09 PM by DECADORK
This post was edited on 12/31 6:47 PM by DECADORK
This post was edited on 12/31 6:53 PM by DECADORK
Posted on 12/31 5:55 PM | IP: Logged
Please, spend a LOT of time researching private school state appearances.
While you're at it, check out the state appearances of Sehome, Burlington, Lynden, and Cedarcrest. Very telling I'll bet...
I believe that Sultan has actually had success in the last decade in boys and girls soccer. Why was that? Were those coaches complaining about public vs. private when they were qualifying for state every year?
Here's a little information about Archbishop Murphy High School. 20 years ago, it didn't exist. The first graduating class had 18 students. 10 years ago, it didn't have football and was moderately successful in boys and girls soccer and girls basketball at the B level. They had ZERO on campus sports facilities. Every single sport had to go somewhere else to practice. That was the year they hired Terry Ennis as the football coach and athletic director...rest in peace.
Now, there are facilities on campus for virtually every sport, the school outgrew the 1A classification and opted up to 2A in 2005, and the school is still winning multiple conference championships and placing highly at state.
So I guess in the end, the folks at Archbishop Murphy should, in a way, be proud that some people feel they are so successful that they need to be banned from playing in the State 2A playoffs from now on. Especially considering where they came from. But it seems a little odd that the hard-work, perseverance and dedication to well-rounded student-athletes at Archbishop Murphy would be the root cause of its removal from the State Playoffs. What kind of message does that send to people who want to build something in this country?
This post was edited on 1/1 2:42 AM by Just Play Football
Posted on 1/1 1:58 AM | IP: Logged
I'm going to appologize and eat some crow at the same time. It has been brought to my attention that I have been misinformed on the eligibility rules. I do believe there are some serious inequities between ATM and other teams in the league but I'm not going to spend mytime on here arguing those anymore. I'm going to spend my time trying to narrow that gap. I will close by saying that I think it is absolutely rediculous that a kid can live in one town and play for another after sitting out a year. I think it totally promotes recruiting. To me that's not what HS athletics are about. It makes me admire a kid like Jordan Nichols and his family even more. I'm sure he had many offers to go and join other schools. He decided to be a part of making his hometown better and I admire that.
Posted on 1/1 9:20 AM | IP: Logged
I also wanted to admit I was wrong on a couple of the kids I thought lived inSultab and played at ATM. Turns out the lived in Monroe. I do know first hand of a couple of boys (who ) don't play varsity yet, but I guess with the current eligibility rules it doesn't really matter where they live.
Posted on 1/1 9:24 AM | IP: Logged
Doesn't the argument that Colfax is always young tell you that it's not so much about the coaching at the HS level. But rather it is other factors that weigh heavier in the equation. If it was the coaching then the team would be more junior and senior lead, as it would take the coach a couple years to get these kids whipped in to shape. Young kids, especially frehmen impact players in the program obviously indicate that it wasn't the coaching that made these kids so good.
Posted on 1/1 2:57 PM | IP: Logged
I thought we were supposed to be nice and not hurt people's feelings Hock. Lol
Posted on 1/1 3:05 PM | IP: Logged
Get used to it matt. This is col-pul's favorite tactic. Well thought-out opinions plus vicious personal attacks on you and your school.
Posted on 1/1 3:08 PM | IP: Logged
I'm not quite as vicious as you Money, I didn't really name call.. Just emphasized that the whining must stop. ;)
Posted on 1/1 6:31 PM | IP: Logged
I think that in the case of Colfax girls BB and VB it is very much about the coaching and work the girls before high school. The High school HC can focus on more advanced things because by the time the girls hit HS fundamentals and such are second nature. In Colfax junior sports is deadly serious while getting a hug turnout. The system doesn't just develop players it develops high quality Youth and AAU coaches and coaching systems. And like I said on another post, well over half of the coaching a player will ever receive happens before high school.
However, that same type of youth sports system wouldn't work in Pullman. Pullman has a fine youth program and some good AAU teams but it isn't as focused and well structured. Pullman is a little less isolated and a little less homogeneous of a population. There is so much more going on and the population is far more transient. Pullman, I think tends to get a little more talent over time than some other schools its size due to the type of community it is with the Universities and technology development incubators. Pullman has a good sports program but what is amazing is how good they are in so many sports, not the #1 program but top 20% in so many sports. And not just sports, everything from Band to 4H to the astronomy club. The school and community really focus on kids getting as much out of the passions and bliss as they are able.
Two very different communities with very different sets of advantages and disadvantages, yet each has developed a system where they can take full advantage of advantages and limit the impact of their respective disadvantages.
I'm sure Lynden has yet another system with like goals to explain their amazing success, as does Prosser, as again I'm sure does Reardan and Royal and...
Posted on 1/2 11:11 AM | IP: Logged
Successful programs have a good leader/coaches. therefore younger kids want to follow success.